I believe what is written below to be self explanitory any comments or even confirmation of receipt would be nice, David.
Dwr Cymru say no no NO!!!!!!!
This article was written by an Action Network user not the BBC
Updated: 02 Sep 2006
By daoud jibreel, Cardiff
today I received the reply from Dwr Cymru to my open letter and the blog on blogger. So I am going to copy it here, and then ask a few questions of the power brokers of the Lords and the welsh Assembly n all.
Dear Mr. Gabriel
Thank you for emailing us about your water charges.I am sorry you have had some problems contacting us by email, and i can understand how frustrating this must have been. So perhaps it would be helful if I can clarify things for you.
At Dwr Cymru we are aware of the increasing number of customers who prefer to contact us using the internet. We have responded to this by giving you a site, which will allow customers to conduct their business through interaction with our website. so if you wish to submit a general enquiry, notify us of a change of address, or even pay your water charges, please log onto
Most of our household customers pay charges based on the rateable value of their home (in your case £136). The district Valuation Office set these values, independently of us, and we simply use these figures to calculate our charges. You have asked what the annual charge would be on a 3-bedroom property in your area, but rateable values vary from one house to another.
It is important to remember that unmeasured charges are not calculated based on the amount of water used or the number of people living in the property. If you do not use a lot of water, or spend a lot of time away, you may save money by having a meter fitted. If you wpould like more information about how to do this, please phone our customer call centre on free-phone 0800 052 0145 (open Monday to Friday 8am to 8pm and on a saturday from 8.30am to 1.30pm). As you do not have a phone, you may prefer, to apply for a meter by email.
water services have to be paid for, and we know that finding the money can be really difficult for some people. we will therefore do all that we can to make paying as easily as possible. As you know, the department of Work and Pensions is currently taking money out of your benefit to pay for water charges, and this does mean that the arrears are reducing every year.
You have mentioned the CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE FUND. It's aim is to assist those customers who are suffering financial hardship and have high arrears with us, and application must be referred to us via a money advice office such as a Citizens Avice Bureau. Our records show that we did refuse your claim for the Customer Assistance Fund back in 2004. The reason for this was that did not feel ongoing charges would be paid regularly. Your application was not refused due to lack of information provided by you. You can, of course, reapply for this fund, but to do this, you will need to contact the Citizens Advice Bureau.
Lastly, you have mentioned that all new properties must be metered, and this is correct. You have also asked why it has not been made compulsory that these properties fit roof rainwater collection systems. Insisting that this is done is not within the remit of water companies.
Thank you for bringing this matter to my attention. You might like to find out more about how we help customers who have complaints, and I have enclosed a copy of our two booklets for you, OUR COMMITMENT TO YOU and HOW WE HANDLE YOUR COMPLAINTS. You can also get a copy of our Code of practice for household customers by phoning 0800 0520 138.
Bev Davies, customer relations manager signed for in the absence of director
Nigel Annett Managing Director.
Well Lord Burns as a director of Dwr Cymru along with Dame Hinde do you think this in any way addresses the issues that I have raised.
Lets have a look shall we,
WHAT WON'T THEY PROVIDE????
The figures of a non-divided property in my area, as I live in a close where all the properties were built at the same time I assume that they all have the same rateable value, hence no problem having the figure easily to hand, why the prevarication then?
MAYBE ITS BECAUSE OF THE MAJOR INCREASE IN THE FINAL AMMOUNT THAT A DIVIDED PROPERTY YEILDS FOR THE WATER COMPANY???????
I wonder if both of you can put pressure on the other Directors of Dwr Cymru to release the figures of my next door neighbour the one semi attached to my property I am sure they wouldn't mind.
HEY CRAZYDAVE ISN'T THAT A FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST??? But does that apply to water companies.
Lets look at their refusal 'we did not feel ongoing charges would be paid regularly' Is six years regular enough LORD BURNS, DAME HINE or has it got to be 10 or 20 after all the regs say 2 yrs well it was four by the time I found out such an assistance fund even existed, or aren't weekly payment enough?????after all Ms Davies knows that the payments come via the DWP, very very regularly!!!
She also seemed confused as to the lack of information was refering to this time I approached the CAB, not the 2004 when the information was provided quite candidly. She might have missed that the CAB are refusing to accept email from me now, and that it was they who refused to send in the form on my behalf and in the section where it says list where your money goes, to write 'I believe that completing this is likely to prejudice my claim'
I wonder if Both of you will put pressure on the other Directors to waive that stipulation in this instance?????and accept the request for the debt to be written off without recourse to the CAB, who do not protect clients from prejudice(alledgedly)
Quite frankly it would be a waste of my time contacting OFWAT regarding challenging the demand to apply through the CAB, as I have come to perceive OFWAT as The Water Company Protection Agency (WCPA) As they have shown no interest what so ever in making roof water collection systems compulsory for all new build properties, and you have seen on the blog the banner that claims the Welsh Assembly Collude with the water companies in allowing excessive profitting out of houses of multiple occupancy, plus not ensuring that all new build do have compulsory roofrain water collection systems, not only to save on water bills but to move us all towards sustainability.
You will have noticed that the co-receivers of emails to you Lord Burns are Assembly members, MP's, fellow House of Lords members and other such notables I doubt that they will call for the water company to reconsider this pittyless response, when they really really ought to.
I doubt also that the CAB will receive any censure for refusing to forward the form as requested by a client who fears prejudice.
I trust that following receipt of this you can confirm that you forwarded the emails to Dame Hine on my behalf, not least the ones regarding Dr. Brian Gibbon and the BMA in Wales apparent refusal to repond to my emails for that man to be struck off the medical register, for negligence tantamount to manslughter, and the wiful neglect of vulnerable adults in Wales who in the main live in houses of multiple occupancy and are currently being robbed blind by the water companies Oh hum Alledgedly.
THANK YOU DIVINE CREATOR FOR FREE WATER FOR THE WELSH PEOPLE, FROM OFF OF OUR ROOFS.
LOVE N LIGHT CRAZYDAVE.
the other email@example.com, BURNST@parliament.uk, BMAWales@bma.org.uk, Brian.Gibbon@wales.gsi.gov.uk, firstname.lastname@example.org, Carwyn.Jones@Wales.gsi.gov.uk, email@example.com, Commissioner@wales.gsi.gov.uk, CRAIGD@parliament.uk, Glyn.Davies@wales.gov.uk, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, Michael.German@wales.gov.uk, firstname.lastname@example.org, Hayley.Chislett@south-wales.pnn.police.uk, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, JWoodman@cardiff.gov.uk, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, David.Melding@wales.gov.uk, Jonathan.Morgan@wales.gov.uk, MORGANJ@parliament.uk, P.A.Kempton@cardiff.gov.uk, email@example.com, PSEdwinaHart@Wales.gsi.gov.uk, Jenny.Randerson@wales.gov.uk, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, Rhys@wales-consumer.org.uk, email@example.com, ROYALLJ@parliament.uk, r.coombes@min"
and the firstname.lastname@example.org, Drive@bbc.co.uk, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, Newseditor@independent.co.uk, JRoberts@talkSPORT.co.uk, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com,firstname.lastname@example.org
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Today 12/9/06 I've written this below sent it to all the above n Media after receiveing Bev's reply. I trust that shortly one of the above will do their duty on all our behalf, lets hope that it is shortly.
Here then is the reply from Dwr Cymru further to my last email, received today 12/9/06.
1) the reason I prefer emailing from my own email address to that of going through their site is so that I can have a record of my dealings with people, if I fail to remember to save it then at least in the main it has gone to another email address as proof that it went. I copied the email from the contact us like I have with various other bodies.
I wonder if you can tell me Bev what the rateable value of 173 equates to in terms of actual monetary value of the bill because 136 doesn't relate to what I am paying per annum. But thank you for the information something the never can quite get a reply form Doc Gibbon or any members of the Health n Social Services committee who couldn't be bothered to ask you on my request????????naughty of them but then Malfeasance is a naughty thing to get up to isn't it Lord Burns??
I wonder why you insist on me going to another place to fill out your form Bev, you know that I have been paying consistently for the last 6 years, so your 'agree to pay your current charges' below wrankles just a little bit.
You are fully aware that I am in receipt of state benefit but why I should tell you how many loaves of bread or fishes I buy with it frankly amazes me, either I qualify on income grounds or I don't and you could kindly say what a regular payer you have been Mr. Gabriel apart from when the DWP people in Cardiff tried to cause me unnecessary hardship in Feb 2004, the month I started protesting outside the Welsh Assembly coincidently or maybe not so????
The parliamentary ombudsman is taking his time in deciding that issue.
It would appear Lord Burns that you and Dame Hine have not placed enough pressure on the directors of Dwr Cymru to waive this stipulation, could you explain why????Neither would it appear has the media, who receive copies of all this stuff, pity they did not ask Mr. blair when are the architects going to be made to put in roof water collection systems, yes especially for those who have metered supplies, the old the infirm the Mental Cases as I am called.
Sorry if I sound just a tad peeved with your reply Bev, but you ofwat my MP n AM all tell me get a meter, yet none have offered the five blue barrels to collect water off of the roof so that all I need from your company is clean water to wash my body n clothes in and cook some food, the rest would then come to me free from the All that Is, say praise the Lord Crazydave and I would have then even cheaper bills, no little needle going round and round every time I flushed the Loo oh no, just lift the bucket from the barrel and a gratitude thought to the Divine.
So you others who read this who have stayed silent for so long are you going to comment are you going to email Bev via Lucy are you going to send me a copy are you going to question what does a 173 rateable value equate in money terms?? and are you going to have the good grace to cc it to me, or are you all gonna sit back and do Jack?????
I wonder, Hope all this might just get ya ta change ya mind Bev, but based on this latest from you I got a feeling you will only do that when the so far silent co-receivers do a little of their duty to the people of Wales and request that you rethink your position.
Love n Light David.
So do I conform do I go to another organisation and have them say you must tell them how many loaves of bread you've bought this week or we wiil not forward the form unless I do kiss n tell.
to what purpose????
To: "david gabriel" Subject: RE: Reply from Dwr Cymru Welsh Water to your complaint.Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:45:17 +0100
Mr David Gabriel
12 September 2006
Enquiries, please contact:
Bev Davies 01443 452807
Our Ref: 41062598
Dear Mr Gabriel
Thank you for your email of 4 September via Lucy Evans. Your original email was undeliverable because the email address you are using does not exist. Our email address is www.dwrcymru.com/online/ as stated in our letter of 1 September.
I will answer your enquiries in the order in which you raised them:
As our letter of 1 September explained the District Valuation Office set rateable values. This office disbanded in 1990 due to the introduction of the community charge which was then replaced by Council Tax. The rateable values in (witheld by me) vary from 136 to 180. The majority of properties have a rateable value of 173. Rateable values were allocated when homes were built however were adjusted when, for example, properties were later extended or otherwise improved. This may explain why the rateable values in (your street) differ even though the properties were originally built at the same time. Water companies had no involvement in the setting of rateable values. The Water Industry Act stipulated that companies use the rateable value as the basis for calculating charges for those properties that are not metered.
The Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) provides a general right of access to recorded information held by public authorities, private companies owned by a public authority and private companies designated as public authorities by the Secretary of State (none have been so far). Water companies, other than Scottish Water, are not public authorities and have not been designated as such for the purposes of the FOIA. That said we would not withhold information we are able to provide.
Your Customer Assistance Fund application was rejected in 2004, however if your circumstances have changed and you agree to pay your current charges you may now qualify for the Fund. In light of the difficulties you have encountered with the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) there is an alternative money advice centre called ‘Speak Easy’ in Arabela Street, Roath that would be able to assist you with completion of your application. We will not be able to consider the application without details of your income and expenditure and your written undertaking to pay the current year’s charges. If you would kindly let me know which branch of the CAB you visited I will ensure that they are reminded of our requirements for completion of the Customer Assistance Fund application form.
I am sorry that you are disappointed with our response with regard to roof water collection. Whilst I understand your rationale I can only reiterate that it is not within the remit of water companies to enforce this condition with property developers.
I have no comment with regard to your remarks about Dr Brian Gibbon and I am not able to confirm that Lord Burns has forwarded your email to Dame Hind.
If I can be of further assistance my colleague, Clair Rushmere, our customer relations officer on 01443 452724, who will be pleased to help you.
Customer Relations Manager
for a full list of blogs go to welsh assembly the crazydave files http://bbccrazydave.blogspot.com/